Using internal clipboard store only, don't mess Windows clipboard

[Stefan]

Using intern clipboard store only

Hi Alex,

maybe you like the idea to "Optional use internal clipboard store only"

i mean all copy and cut inside of HippoEDIT
would be stored inside HE only
and are available form HE Clipboard Ring only.

So we don't mess up the clipboard of an foreign computer at customers desk. 
May be nifty to not leave tracks of important  data there.
And i don't would remove data from costumers clipboard if i had the need to reformat my text.

Just an idea.

[alex]

And how you would copy some text from external app? Save to file / open a file? Drag & drop?
Ok, I would keep this in mind, and evaluate if somebody else request. For me this is rather special and can bring more confusion then benefits.

But from technical side this is not very complex.

[Stefan]

And how you would copy some text from external app? Save to file / open a file? Drag & drop?

[nopush]I talked about copy and cut only, not about pasting, which would be still available  [/nopush]

[alex]

Then it would be inconsistent...
So, I suggest to wait until another request about this

[Stefan]

With other editors we can switch between windows and several internal clipboards by menu (and shortcut).

Very nifty to store more then one snippet inside the editor for later reuse. Especially for working with scripting as temp-store.

I have also clipboard extender like CLCL to keep more then on clip but would like to suggest this as an build-in feature.

[alex]

Hi Stefan,

HE already have multi clipboard, in which you can store more than one entry (12 by default) and you can switch between them with shortcut Ctrl+Shift+V and menu.
What is the difference? Are you taking about "Clip library"?

Best regards,
Alex.

[Stefan]

AFAIK HE has one clipboard with let's say 12 slots / items / entry / history which contents change over time.

What i talking about is up to ten different clipboards / register /stores,
named e.g. CB0=WindowsOwn, CB1, CB2, CB3 ...CB9  (or even a-z, don't limit the user!)
switchable by menu or shortcut what CB is currently active, means to and from what CB i will copy/paste.

The advantage is you can store some pieces in CB2 and some in CB5 and access them when ever you need.
(like code snippets but without to have to store them first in some menu/dialog)
Just switch to CB4, copy an portion of text, switch back to CB0. If later i need this piece again i just say "paste CB4", then CB3, then CB6.

This is also useful for scripting where you can store an step of work and get it later back by just refer to CB9
and don't be afraid to destroy the current load in WindowsOwn CB (or later destroy the clipboard item stored from your script).

Or f.ex. use an script which do smtg (e.g. parse the current doc, or an file from disc) and store different snippets to different CBs
where i can use them from later on, one by one.  E.g. scripting result 1 is put to CB1, result 2 into CB2,...

If you will save this clipboard for the next run you can even use this CBs to store scripting variables for the next time.

.

[alex]

This more similar to clip library than to clipboard usage. Only the way how this get to this library is something similar to clipboard. If you paste something, normally - it should be placed in active clipboard, and this is not what you want. For me this not connected to scripting some how, but just generic feature.
Which other editors you meant having this feature?

[Stefan]

This more similar to clip library than to clipboard usage. Only the way how this get to this library is something similar to clipboard.

The point is, the shortcuts Ctrl+C/V are always the same for all CBs, only the current active CB is switched.
So it belongs to the term clipboard.

And the CBs have names like CB, CB2, CB3..., so can be easily accessed.
Whereas the clip library is not that easy. Even if you could access an library item by its full path you have to know it exactly.

If you paste something, normally - it should be placed in active clipboard, and this is not what you want.

Why normally? ;-)    YMMV
I often want to store an piece of text for several re-use later on.
The clipboard is nice and easy to access, but often overwritten, that's why people use more then one CB.
Your Clipboard-Ring is nifty too but can not be set and read by item. It's not scriptable.

Hmm, f.ex. i would like to copy three text blocks to clipboard and paste them back in different order.
I can do that by using Clipboard-Ring, but have to watch which item i need.
Whit named CBs i can easy say: CB4, then CB3, CB4, CB5, CB3...

For me this not connected to scripting some how, but just generic feature.

Generic feature yes, but also useful for scripting... f.ex. to store different parameters to different CB,
then call an script which is coded to use this CB content as VARs  ... instead of popping up several inputboxes.

Example:
- copy string to CB1
- write (.+) - (.+)
- cut it to CB2
- write $2 $1
- cut it to CB3
- call script which knows CB1, CB2 and CB3 are parameters
--- script write $2 to CB2 , $1 to CB1
Now you can access this result when ever you need it.
The script is finished and gone for a long time, the CBs are still there to paste.

There are plenty of use, more then i can imaging.

Which other editors you meant having this feature?

e.g.:
UE
Boxer
Vim
RJ TextEd
plus two others i can't trust to let me mentioned them
plus them i have forgotten.

[alex]

Thanks Stefan, now it clear and I got your request.

The point is, the shortcuts Ctrl+C/V are always the same for all CBs, only the current active CB is switched.
So it belongs to the term clipboard.

Hmm.. does this mean that you need additional action to "switch" clipboards before getting content from CB2 for example? For me it not very usable.

Clipboard is not scriptable yet, but this can be added easy, and will be done. By scriptable I mean real scripting access but not using macros. In real scripting yo can also use global variables to store intermediate results or what ever. Plus you will have global/workspace/file storages.

To summarize what you want and what I will accept :
- you want to get in addition to Clipboard ring, which contains numbered items which are not stable (because position is changed with any new copy) some kind of Named Clipboard items (as HE has for bookmarks).
- Such Named Clipboard Items are not used in normal Copy/Paste process by can be accessed by special dedicated commands as CopyToClipboard1 and PasteFromClipboard1
- Such Named Clipboard items should be also presented in main menu and in Clipboard Ring menu.
- I do not like to implement such switch of active Clipboard, because from one side for everyday work I think it will be too much confusion to switch from one clipboard to another before edit operation, you need to visualize which clipboard is currently active, users will forget to switch back, and technically for me this is not easy because Clipboard is hardly connected with Clipboard Ring. And I do not think that it will be good to implement Clipboard ring for every named Clipboard... (but who knows, maybe this is and not bad... but not definitely not a partial usage without ring)
- this is new feature, rather big, so it will not be done in 1.49, but I can add it, probably to 1.50, because it also not so huge in effort.

Please point from your editor examples for best, from your point of view, implementation.

Best regards,
Alex.

[Stefan]

A> Hmm.. does this mean that you need additional action to "switch" clipboards
A> before getting content from CB2 for example?
Yes, exactely.

A> For me it not very usable.
Mhmm. OK, i see. But since this is like i understand this feature and saw it it in other editors
i want to stay on "my" suggestion for the next few lines. You may adapt the parts you like and drop the rest.



A> Clipboard is not scriptable yet, but this can be added easy, and will be done. 
A> In real scripting you can also use global variables to store intermediate results or what ever.
A> Plus you will have global/workspace/file storages.
A> By scriptable I mean real scripting access but not using macros.
You don't want to say that we can't access the CBs by macro?, don't you? ;-)
Since macro have nothing like var's to set, the CB are an fine work around for that issue.


A> To summarize what you want and what I will accept :
A> - you want to get in addition to Clipboard ring, which contains numbered items which are not stable
A> (because position is changed with any new copy)
A> some kind of Named Clipboard items (as HE has for bookmarks).
Yes. Clipboards is commonly used as name. Or register with VIM.


A> - Such Named Clipboard Items are not used in normal Copy/Paste process by can be accessed
A> by special dedicated commands as CopyToClipboard1 and PasteFromClipboard1
I think that point is not usable:
 
Ctrl+C = Win system CB
Ctrl+X
Ctrl+V
CopyToClipboard1  = internal CBs
CutToClipboard1
PasteFromClipboard1
CopyToClipboard2
CutToClipboard2
PasteFromClipboard2
CopyToClipboard3
CutToClipboard3
PasteFromClipboard3
CopyToClipboard4
CutToClipboard4
PasteFromClipboard4
CopyToClipboard5
CutToClipboard5
PasteFromClipboard5
CopyToClipboard6
CutToClipboard6
PasteFromClipboard6
CopyToClipboard7
CutToClipboard7
PasteFromClipboard7
CopyToClipboard8
CutToClipboard8
PasteFromClipboard8
CopyToClipboard9
CutToClipboard9
PasteFromClipboard9
== 30 shortcuts

SetActiveClipboard0 = Win sys CB
SetActiveClipboard1 = internal CBs
SetActiveClipboard2   Ctrl+Shift+2
SetActiveClipboard3
SetActiveClipboard4
SetActiveClipboard5   Ctrl+Shift+5
SetActiveClipboard6
SetActiveClipboard7
SetActiveClipboard8
SetActiveClipboard9
Common Ctrl+C
Common Ctrl+X
Common Ctrl+V
== 13 shortcuts


And my suggestion has the advantage of using always the same shortcuts for cut/copy/paste
(after you have set one CB as active you could forget which is active)
For your solution you have to remember always which CB you want to use currently (have i to press Ctrl+3 or +4?...
do you remember even after half an hour?  I can take an look at the status bar ;-) )




A> - Such Named Clipboard items should be also presented in main menu
Yes.

A> and in Clipboard Ring menu.
Which "Clipboard Ring menu"?  I know only an "Clipboard Ring"-entry in Edit menu.
I see this new CBs not related to your current "Clipboard Ring".
Clipboard Ring is for to show/access last few Win-System-Clipboard history.
This new CBs are like register to just store one single piece of text, no history.



A> - I do not like to implement such switch of active Clipboard, because from one side for everyday work
A> I think it will be too much confusion to switch from one clipboard to another before edit operation,
A> you need to visualize which clipboard is currently active, users will forget to switch back, and
A> technically for me this is not easy because Clipboard is hardly connected with Clipboard Ring.
A> And I do not think that it will be good to implement Clipboard ring for every named Clipboard...
A> (but who knows, maybe this is and not bad... but not definitely not a partial usage without ring)
I think there is no history (= Clipboard Ring) for this new CB needed.


A> Please point from your editor examples for best, from your point of view, implementation.
I think this feature are useful:

* Main menu item "Clipboards"
   with Submenu showing an list like
     0 Windows Clipboard Ctrl+Shift+0
     1 Internal Clipboard Ctrl+Shift+1
     ...
     9 Internal Clipboard Ctrl+Shift+9
     switch to next CB Ctrl+Shift+N
     switch to prev CB Ctrl+Shift+P
     clear CB...  ( New Dialog " [ ]1 [ ]2 -...- [ ]9 [ ]All"  (maybe?)
* an check mark showing which CB is the active one
* hoovering an CB item show an yellow tooltip with content
* Status bar shows which CB is active: "Ln 114 Ch 47, CB1", "Ln 114 Ch 47, CB4", "Ln 114 Ch 47, CBW"
  use left double click to switch to next CB  OR to open CB context menu.
  There is also an status bar message saying: “the active cb has been set to cb4”
* To clear an CB set it active and copy an blank
* To edit an CB set it active, paste, modify and copy back
* If (writeaccess) save CB for next start

Usage:
Set an CB active by its index number or by next/prev, using menu or shortcut
Ctrl+C/V/X works now with this currently active clipboard


Scripting:

SetClipboard(1)
Copy

SetClipboard(2)
Copy

GoToLine(1)
GoToColumn(1)
SetClipboard(2)
Paste

GoToLine(1)
GoToColumn(1)
SetClipboard(1)
Paste

SetClipboardNext()
SetClipboardPrev()

ClearClipboard(6)
or
SetClipboard(6)
ClipboardClear

ClearAllClipboards()

var = Clipboard //what ever is current
SysClip = var
SysClip += var //append



HTH?

[alex]

Hi Stefan,

Clipboard Ring menu called with shortcut associated with Edit.PasteExtended, with default shortcut Ctrl+Shift+V.

For me solution you want is too complex and far away from current implementation, this mean I need serious effort to develop/maintain the feature.
So, I will suggest to delay the implementation until other people will request it, so I see it is really requested by masses .
If new feature is small and implementation effort is not big, I can think about including it into 1.50. Otherwise I have more often requested selling features still in queue as: xml + python outlining, ftp browser, zen coding etc.

Best regards,
Alex.
P.S: From editors you mentioned is some which has both such user clipboard and clipboard ring?
With your example you probably took as as base UE?

[Stefan]

A> Clipboard Ring menu
Aah, thats the "menu". - no, i don't think there should be items or somewhat related to the new ten CBs.
And I would say: Just modify Clipboard Ring only IF CB-0=Win is the active one.
If CB1 till CB9 is active just skip CR for the Ctrl+C/X trigger..


A> delay the implementation
It is a pity but OK of course.


A> has both such user clipboard and clipboard ring
No i think not. Some have the first, even less the second.


A> took as as base UE
Well.
UE has just the CBs item itself.  Set one and use this. Thats basically what i have chosen.
Boxers CB implementation is more complete incl. the tooltips, menu item for each set/edit/paste/clean sub-entry whit again each the 10 CBs items.
The status bar indicator have both but boxer has the double click action to switch to next CB.
All editors i see use this ten CBs as i have mentioned above: set one active, use Ctrl+C/V/X as usual.

CU